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http://reviews.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Generator-Economy-Device-SCAMS_W0QQugidZ10000000005261775

Hydrogen Generator Economy Device SCAMS

by

Ayasia


Due to alot of recent complaints from frustrated HHO buyers, I have updated this guide.
 
With the surge in gas prices, came a surge of people and "companies" selling hydrogen boost generators, systems and devices to increase your fuel economy. The amount of sellers gets bigger with every day. This alone puts up a warning flag.
 
Included is a brief on the Performance chips, Air Razors, Turbonators, Throttle body spacers, and other "bolt on performance and fuel economy"
 
This message is for all looking to purchase something of the matter.
 
Most all of these sellers here on eBay and elswhere on the net state that they have been researching for years and that it is now available to the public. Most all of them say their technology is patent pending and that their system is better than others. Most all of them claim huge "up to" increases in fuel savings.
 
I have been researching the Economy and Hydrogen world for sometime now. Being a auto mechanic and being not only booksmart but streetsmart, I have decided to try to evade people from throwing away their hard earned cash.
 
First the Hydrogen deal:
 
Lets get the facts straight. Water is H2O aka- 2parts Hydrogen, 1part Oxygen combined together. When put under electrolysis or electrosis these molecules split forming a gas known as HHO which is a very explosive and powerful gas. The smallest of sparks can ignite the gas and if stored into container which for some reason caught fire the result could be fatal. No need to get scared though, if the proper precautions are made, no danger is to be seen.
 
HHO is about 3 times more powerful than gasoline vapor. Meaning 1L of HHO would give your vehicle 300% more power than 1L of gasoline vapor. But feeding an engine pure hho would destroy it due to the fact timing is advanced(spark before TDC) on most vehicles but needs to be retarded(spark after TDC). Also the temperature at which HHO Burns is melting point of the metal it touches. SO...your valves and head would burn through in a matter of weeks. Also in diesel engines if you completely remove diesel from an engine the upper cylinder gets no lubrication and will wear out your piston rings FAST.
 
Getting enough HHO to power a car is pretty hard if not impossible. Explanation: a 2 cylinder 1L engine uses 1L of air per 4 revolutions (rpm). Gasoline is injected as a mist which turns into a vapor instantly at a ratio of 15 parts air to one part vapor. Which is .07 L. At 2000 RMP the engine uses 1/2L of vapor per SECOND. HHO is already one part oxygen to two parts hydrogen so too much air would thin it out too much and give no explosion. SO, even at a ratio of 10:1 that would require .85 L per second of HHO to power that same engine at 2000RPM. Kinda alot. NO generator I have seen or made can come close to the requirements.
 
So we use HHO to Boost the efficeincy of our gasoline engine, giving it pure hydrogen and oxygen to let the fuel burn better. This is where the good part starts.
 
Most sellers are selling systems that give less than 1/2 LPM of HHO. When mixed with the air going to the engine that makes NOTHING.  1/10-1/2 LPM of HHO will do some good for a small engine like 50CC-2.0L again more HHO to the bigger engine. Any engine over this size needs 1+ LPM. Alot of the sellers dont even know how much their system makes! They say "ALOT" but in reality all the cells I have tested that seemed to make alot, made 1/4-3/4 LPM. If the kit supplies gas via an aquarium air line, the system makes nothing, trust me.  LOOK OUT FOR THE GAS OUTPUT. I recommend .5-1.0LPM per Liter of engine displacement. Example: 2.0L vehicle should have a 1-2LPM generator for good increase in economy.
 
Second, if a system uses alot of AMPS, it will fry your alternator and battery in no time which no one will tell you though. Look out for systems that draw over 15AMPs but put out less than 1LPM. This is not a wise investment. A full size truck can handle 25 AMPS but I dont recommend going over 20. Again, putting 20Amps on a 1.8L car, will make the alternator, which is usually 85AMPs, run at a high load and burn out.
 
MORE EXPENSIVE DOESNT MEAN GOOD!
 
Upon testing, I find that without proper circulation of air around a unit (which is impossible under the hood of the car where it is already HOT) the unit boils over in a matter of minutes. So it starts drawing more amps, if you start at 10 you will get above 20 at boil. NOT GOOD.
 
Any system made out of PVC(white) plumbing pipe that draws over 15 amps is likely to boil. That pipe is not made to withstand that kind of temperature. It turns soft and flexible at that temp. It will warp, deform and likely leak in short time if there is any connections below the water line. Watch out for these types of systems.
 
The biggest concern is that most none of the sellers tell anyone that if you own a EFI (fuel injected) car which most people do, that you will need either an EFIE on your Oxygen sensor, or a resistor on your MAP or MAF sensor. These are fairly easy to build and install but it is a MUST and you will not see much difference in fuel savings without one, you even might see a loss of economy. It is used to trick the computer into thinking that the fuel mix is richer than it is. You want LEAN mix if you are running HHO boost. But too much oxygen in the exhaust will tell the computer to add more fuel which would cancel any HHO boost. Moving the Oxygen sensor out of the pipe but still mounted on the pipe will work on some vehicles (1996o or older). BE WARNED: too lean of a fuel mix WILL burn your valve seats and valve heads! Diesel cars do not suffer from this. I have found that vehicles newer than 1996, are close to impossible to trick. They have too many sensors and emissions systems which trip the CEL and put the vehicle into "safe" mode aka: full rich.
 
COLD WEATHER PROBLEMS:
 
As most of us in this country, we get below freezing temperatures in the winter. This causes another problem, Generator Freezing. If you have a sealed unit, once frozen, it will no longer be sealed. Also, a frozen generator does not produce gas until it is thawed, you also must be aware that if the water freezes in the lines, it obviously wont permit the gas from going anywhere. Water expands as is freezes and will break all water tight seals. The only way around this is adding anti-freeze or alchohol. Both of these have their drawbacks. Anti-freeze causes glycol buildup on the plates which hinders HHO production and is very hard to clean off. Alchohol severely lowers the HHO output while keeping the amps about the same but keeps the plates clean.
 
CONCLUSION!
 
I have tested many systems and put over $5000 into it all, I have built many different cells and tried many electronics. I have come to a conclusion that as of yet, there is no system out there worth "investing" into just yet. The reason for this is that the energy your car has to spend turning an alternator at full load is equal to running your a/c compressor full time and the fact that your battery suffers from this is even more costly. Add it all up and this "investment" isnt quite that. The cleaning of the cell and the measuring of electrolyte is also time consuming. Keeping it from freezing is also a hassle.
 
I have run a "Smacksbooster" cell in a Jeep Cherokee 4.0L. I was able to maintain a steady 25-30% increase in economy with a MAP enhancer. If you want to build a cell, build this one, it is fairly cheap and requires no special parts best of all if you use KOH (potassium hydroxide) and distilled water it typically requires no cleaning or maintenance except for adding water.

UPDATE: I have tried the Smacksbooster setup on a 1998 Subaru Outback 2.5 DOHC. My trip was from Salt Lake City, UT to Portland, OR, 1600 miles roundtrip. I was unable to get an increase in mileage at all. In some cases, I saw a drop of my usual mileage. I have made this trip without the generator before and recorded all mileage readings. My conclusion is either it is impossible to trick the engine ECM or that the load put on the small engine is equal or more than the efficiency obtained.
 
I recommend not wasting your money or valuble time on this so called technology.

The Performance economy chip SCAM:
 
Alot of sellers selling these "performance chips" many have closed doors and opened new ones due to bad feedback.
Stay away from the "performance chips" as they are only a resistor, usually 33K OHM (5pack at Radioshack for $1) that goes on your air intake temperature sensor and give the car a little boost. Whether $40 or $.99 on eBay, they are the same and dont do anything for gas mileage as the sellers state. The shipping is outrageous too.
 
The AirRazor or Turbonator or anything of the sort will not do anything for fuel economy as they restrict the air flow to the engine. Especially at high RPM. They state it makes a Vortex and mixes the air and fuel better to let it burn but what really happens is it makes Turbulence which slows down airflow which is exactly opposite of what we want. Chrome the inside of your intake manifold and install a smooth intake if you want performance with economy.
 
Fuel magnets do not work on gasoline cars as I have tested several different vehicles. They do help diesel engines. Several people for whom I have installed my magnets, say increases of 5-20% in economy. Stay away from Fuel Master (cheap ceramic magnets).
 
Fuel heaters do not do anything for fuel injected gasoline cars as the gasoline is already heated hot enough. They do work wonders on diesel as the fuel always returns to the tank and cools again never getting a chance to heat up hot enough for proper combustion.
 
Throttle body spacers dont do anything for a vehicle unless it is in full throttle position which is obviously not the point of saving gas. I have heard from two people that the AirRaid spacer increases economy 2.5-4 MPG on Chevy trucks.
 
Most economy devices only do good for the sellers and their fat wallets.
 
A good investment is a nice set of sparkplugs every 75K (Bosch 2 or 4, Iridium, e3), a new set of ignition wires every 50-75K miles, a new fuel filter, a high flow air filter (K&N, AirRaid, Fujita will last longer than your car) dont go for the China "cold air intake filter" Cheap foam will let ALOT of dust through.
 
Proper inflation of tires is a must. You can lose 10% for every 5PSI your tires are under-inflated. Extra junk has to go. A 100LBs will drop you 10% on a smaller car.
 
 Use a fuel injector cleaner once in a while. I use 1/2oz. of ATF per gallon of gas at fillup. It cleans and lubes the entire fuel system and adds a couple mpg's. Change your oil on time with the proper viscosity oil. Install an oil filter magnet to go longer between oil changes. Fill up at a quality gas station ALWAYS. I tested fuel from various "cheap stations" and you dont want to know what I found.
 
Here is a list of wasted money courtesy of ME.
 
Water4Gas -- (no NEW technology here, just FREE info from the web, a pathetic electrolyser design and a waste of time) These are the glass jar generators selling on eBay.
RunYourCarwithWater -- (Hydrostar manual for $50)
RunMyCarwithWater -- (Same Bull)
Thermo1 -- (you want a leaky system, this is the way to go)
Protium Fuel Systems -- (Selling things they dont have and dont want to return your money)
HydroStar -- Manuals for sale on eBay (the MOST EXPENSIVE and hardest system to TEST your money on. Based on his theory and no proof. Dont waste your money and time.)
Hydrocar is the hydrostar
GEET (I find it possible for it to work only on a fixed RPM engine)
mybetterworld (the system seems to work for a few days at a time before cleaning needs to be done @ $1050, I dont think so. Try it if you wish)
HHO Express (the systems make little HHO output, their biggest system would work well for an engine up to 6.0)
Turbonator $89
RedLine Performance chip $25 (closed store)
Fuel Master Fuel Magnet $30 (cheap ceramic magnets)
Throttle Body spacer $50
Orgone Generators $89 (mega bull)
  
I put up all the info a person needs to know to make an informed decision on where to put their hard earned money. Best off, use your common sense, if a system costs $1000, you wont pay it off in savings before you get rid of the car probably.
 
Email me with questions and comments to matlashevsky_85-yahoo.com (replace - with @)
 
If this was helpful, vote yes please. If not let me know what I missed. Thanks everyone!



PESWiki.com

Action : Bringing Robert Potchen to Justice

by

Sterling Allen

Bob Potchen, of Precombustion Technologies Inc. (PTI), was initially working with Bob Boyce to commercialize Boyce's hydroxy technology wherein a super-efficient onboard electrolysis system generates hydroxy gas which is added to the air intake of a vehicle to improve its mileage -- by as much as double in some cases.

Boyce said that Potchen made many modifications to Boyce's system so that rather than improve mileage, the resulting product actually diminishes mileage. It was early in the realization of this tendency that Boyce removed his involvement with and endorsement of Potchen's device.

I've spoken with at least six former associates of Potchen, all of whom verify Boyce's assertions about the technology being degraded by Potchen. Boyce says that a university laboratory tested Potchen's device in November, 2009 on a dynamometer, documenting that it reduced a truck's mileage from 13 mpg to 10 mpg. They are willing to publish their results. (Pending.)

Potchen tells dissatisfied customers that they are the only ones who have complained, while in fact there are at least a hundred who have complained, according to former associates, who hear of the complaints directly from the customers seeking remedy.

Furthermore, Boyce says that Potchen never licensed the technology from him, and that he has no right to be selling the device, which still includes some of Boyce's exclusive intellectual property.
It was while Boyce was at Potchen's facility in May, 2009 that Boyce first noticed what turned out to be a VeriChip implanted in his right shoulder without his permission or knowledge, which turned out to spur the formation of a tumor there, which then metastasized into what Boyce's doctors called a "terminal cancer." Potchen is former military intelligence, and would thus likely have the ability and access to inject and track such an implant.

It would seem that Potchen's actions are not merely a function of incompetence but of willful sabotage. In either case, he has been giving the industry a bad name by selling a lemon product, and he needs to be brought to justice.

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Bob Boyce wrote:

"[...] A couple of days ago, Bob Potchen threatened to sue the dealers that dare to go against him and speak out about him.

"He needs to be stopped in his crusade of ripping off the public. We need to get the word out in a big way. We want all of his former customers and dealers to file complaints with the Attorney General in their home states, and with the Attorney General of the state of Florida, about the past and ongoing fraudulent actions and behavior of Bob Potchen.

"A group of dealers have come out with a proven working unit that is built exactly to my design, and Bob Potchen has threatened to sue them to prevent it.

"Bob Potchen never followed up with me to obtain a license agreement, so he does not have ANY legal rights to my design whatsoever. Despite his use of electropolished plates, the basic layout of his cells is still according to my series cell design, in violation of my published allowance of non-commercial, personal only use without license." [ &c... ]

Potchen's Official Website
-- http://thecell.cc  -- Precombustion Technologies Inc. (PTI)



http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8155.0

Hugo Chavez

Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« on: October 11, 2009, 05:02:07 AM »

Like this one, I'm sure you've seen it a zillion times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlLtxAoN22g

I had a nice routine going that ended many months ago.  I would log on to youtube every few days and search for magnet motor, overunity or free energy and categorize by newest and keep caught up on what everyone was doing and uploading.  And there was a lot of people feeding off of eachothers work and trying different angles and it was fun to watch and get the creative ideas flowing for my own experiments.  But these guys come along now with a constant hourly flood making it very hard to catch that new video by a new member without wading through dozens of pages of magniwork spam floods.  It's really pissing me off, anybody else a little annoyed?  Anything that can be done about it?  It's clear youtube doesn't give a shit.  Flood youtube with complaint messages?  I dunno...

Magluvin

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 05:18:39 AM »

I am sick of it also. Just in one day there seems to be up to 10 or more pages of it. These guys need to be shut down at the source. There are probably so many buyers that dont have a clue that its a scam and keep the info like its gold due to not being able to build the thing in hopes of some day being able to.
Magluvin

Xaverius

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 06:49:24 AM »

I'm not sure what the solution is.  These scammers are flooding the internet with false advertising and like you said, claiming youtube inventions as their own.  I'd like to find out who is behind this and kick their ass.  I'm not sure what can be done about it.  Makes me almost as mad as Mylow.  No wonder so many people believe that free energy promoters like us are wierdos.  It's scammers like them that give us a bad name.

powercat

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 01:23:49 PM »

Hi all
Here are a couple of articles on this problem.
Magniwork Energy internet scam  from Stirling Allan hmmm  ::) even he was selling plans at one time
http://www.off-grid.net/2009/10/08/magniwork-energy-internet-scam
And
I sell “poor quality” Magniworks guides
http://www.off-grid.net/2009/10/10/i-sell-poor-quality-magniworks-guides/


Hugo Chavez

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2009, 10:04:29 AM »

Quote from: Justalabrat on October 11, 2009, 10:41:00 PM

    LOL It bugs the heck out of me TOO!  Here is something I do when I search for youtube videos use
     -Magniwork
     in front of your search word, it works really great in reducing the spam.
      ;D

thank you! this is an excellent tip.  It does work.  They post under a few different names now so all you have to do is include a (-) for whatever homepage they have included in their description. like: "-magniwork"  But, they're still a major problem and still hindering discussion since there's no way to get this info out to the masses.  Before they started this, there were quite a few videos being uploaded from completely new people.  Now, not near as many.  I'm guessing after months of spamming their videos around the clock, there are many people that never come in contact with the video that might have spured an idea with them or made them feel like uploading work they had done in the past, so they never go on to upload their own experiments thanks to mangiwork.  Several takes on it, probabaly all valid.  They really need to be stopped.

powercat

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2009, 01:29:28 PM »

okay I just got this e-mail from YouTube, I am posting it here for those of you that didn't get one.

Subject: Magniwork's Massive Spam Champagne

Hello,

Thank you for your recent comments against Magniwork's massive spamming.

As of 10.12.2009 Magniworks continues to copy other peoples videos, put their name on them and repost them back to YouTube. On average Magniworks repost 500 to a 1,0000 videos a day of the same stolen videos. To date Magniworks has posted over 25,000 videos on YouTube under different names. Please help report Magniwork's super massive spamming champagne, others already have. Will you join us in this fight?

Thanks in advance for your community support.

YouTube office:
Phone: 1-650-253-0000
Fax: 1-650-253-0001
Email: service@youtube.com

Hello Free Energy Seekers.

As you may have noticed by now, Magniwork Scam has begun to spam YouTube on a scale unlike ever seen before. At the time of this posting, Magniwork has made over 10,000 postings on YouTube alone of which nearly all of them are the same stolen video posted over and again.

This alone gives great cause for great concern as to whether or not Magniwork is a scam. DATA that is starting to come in from those who have dealt with Magniworks are telling people it's a scam. Google's phone numbers are at the bottom of this report.

Recently I found posts from YouTubers stating they got ripped off for a $100.00 dollars for blueprints that do not work. Posters go on to say that Magniwork tech support will not even return their emails. However their posts alerting the public about Magniwork always get deleted quickly. Even my comments with questions get deleted right away.

Thus, this channel has been set up to hear from YouTubers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMq0fdsKa9Q&feature=email
END
Now the war has started
cat

powercat

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2009, 07:12:33 PM »

The Magniwork permanent advert is back on YouTube thay have changed the wording of the advert, so now it is not claiming 100% free energy, but when you get to the bottom of the advert and you click on the link that says guaranteed free energy it takes you to the same old BS as before.
How stupid are the people at YouTube to allow this advert back,
where are the Internet police when you need them

Mr_Video

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2009, 02:05:13 AM »

it's uploaded .

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=346

thankyou Stefan

powercat

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2009, 11:11:07 AM »

How do we stop them.
I made a post on youtube it was removed,  it seems you can make a negative comment a bout
Magniwork but you can't tell people where to get the information free
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9yEtK2meoo

I also noticed last night somebody posted a video telling everyone that Magniwork was a scam,
this video is also now been removed

The administrators of YouTube are fu**ing stupid

cat

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2009, 09:51:25 PM »

gREG

Hi all,

First off, the download doesn't work for me.  But secondly,  all of the sites shown on magnetgeneratorexposed.com seem associated with Click Bank (Slick Bank).
The three that are seemingly scams are:
MagniWork
Magnets4Energy
Free Power Blueprint

I fell for the last one.  The motor/generator they show is Bedini's SSG motor and schematic.  I was so mad.  They just copy the documents and sell them to suckers like me.

Beware of these and Click Bank.  Someone is making money these days ... I know it's not me!

Greg

Hi Greg,

this is the direct link for the free Magniwork PDF Ebook download :

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=346

Just click it and save the PDF file to your harddisk.

Too bad these suckers try make a buck on work other do for free here.
We have to stop them.

Regards, Stefan.

Cydonian

Re: Anybody else annoyed at the daily video flood on youtube by Magniwork?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2009, 01:53:10 PM »

I found this company, Lutec Australia Pty Ltd, web site:  http://www.lutec.com.au/index.htm

its link was on a youtube video
( 440% over unity magnetic motor home generator ) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5jtx0IFgQ

and on their web site, it says:
BE WARNED - 'MAGNIWORK' IS NOT RELATED IN ANY WAY TO LUTEC AUSTRALIA, DOES NOT SELL PLANS FOR OUR EQUIPMENT AND IS NOT AUTHORISED TO USE OUR VIDEOS ON THEIR SITE!

So does magniwork sell this company's work illegally??

Some light reading:

Stirling D Allan: ''This is Fraud'':
http://www.off-grid.net/2009/10/08/magniwork-energy-internet-scam/

SCAM: Bogus claim on plagiarized work:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Magniwork

I sell ''poor quality'' Magniworks guides:
http://www.off-grid.net/2009/10/10/i-sell-poor-quality-magniworks-guides/

Igor Dobreski & Vojdan Vrcakovski:
http://www.off-grid.net/2009/10/16/magniwork-scammers-unmasked/

You didn't indicate your method of payment,
but you should find these links a good start:

Remember, report that they charged you for what is available for free,
especially represent it as fraud to PayPal or your credit card company!

Click-Bank:
US and Canada Toll Free: 1-800-390-6035
Direct: 1-208-345-4245
M-F 7A-6P (Mountain Time)

Open your order,
fill in the form,
and check the “Refund” button:
http://www.clickbank.com/orderDetail.htm

Report fraud:
http://www.clickbank.com/reportproblem.html

Live Chat:
https://www.clickbank.com/webchat/userinfo.jsp?chatID=&workgroup=cb_csq@workgroup.im.clickbank.local

Report fraud:
http://adwords.google.com/support/aw/bin/request.py?display=form&contact_type=tiaff